This topic contains 28 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by Profile photo of Meg Marshall Meg Marshall 3 years, 11 months ago.

Wikileaks

  • Profile photo of Meg Marshall

    …have hit the nail on the head. Wikileaks is no different to any other news source – news media has always leaked sensitive political information. WHEN IT SUITS THE GOVERNMENT. The Wikileaks debate isn’t so much about the actual leaking of information; rather the lack of control the world’s governments have over it.

    ‘Freedom of the press’ is a myth and the scramble to silence Wikileaks proves it beyond all doubt.

    [flickr-photo:id=4730034487,size=m] ~S&N Bouncer and Official Hitwoman for the Gutter Sistren~

    Profile photo of Arioch Morningstar

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  • Tangent & Funky Name Brother; Founder of the Gutter Brethren; Frequent [flickr-photo:id=3274749401,size=m]
Profile photo of Arioch Morningstar

….I suppose we’ll just have to keep our knives sharp.

When do the plaid tanks roll again?

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  • Tangent & Funky Name Brother; Founder of the Gutter Brethren; Frequent [flickr-photo:id=3274749401,size=m]
  • Profile photo of Renee Jordan

    - we could slit their throats for them… and I mean that in the literal sense.

    I don’t care much for lobbyists.

    Abaddon, Baphomet, Samael, “that bitch who stole my wallet”… I am known by many names.

    Sgt. Renee Jordan PUMC, PUV James Keeling

    Profile photo of Renee Jordan

    You owe me a new keyboard. I know from experience that you just can’t clean a full spew’s worth of Dr. Pepper off these things. :)

    Abaddon, Baphomet, Samael, “that bitch who stole my wallet”… I am known by many names.

    Sgt. Renee Jordan PUMC, PUV James Keeling

    Profile photo of Stephen Wood

    I’m the fat kidTongue out

    Profile photo of

    They even took the fat kid before me. I fucking hate kickball.

    Profile photo of Stephen Wood

    Civ3 is awesome, it is a very good point that at the turn of the 19-20th century most people were self employed. Now its completely switched to large corporations and buisnesses that pay more tax than any individual so thats where your problems starts, more money = more say over policy etc.

    Profile photo of Arioch Morningstar

    We want to get the money out of politics. So we need to change the law. But lobbyists ($$$) influence those who make the law. So in order to get the money out of politics, the lobbyists must proverbially slit their own throats. It’s not going to happen Frown

    It doesn’t matter who we elect. Corporate interests lobby both sides. If we want to see real change, it will require a revolution. That *might* happen if the middle class continues to disappear and we wind up with our populace being comprised of 5% rich and 95% poor. I seriously doubt it will happen, though.

    That’s why I generally avoid politics. Too damn depressing IMHO. I see no hope for positive change in America within my lifetime. Just look at how successful the “Time for a change” candidate has been Cry Le sigh.

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  • Tangent & Funky Name Brother; Founder of the Gutter Brethren; Frequent [flickr-photo:id=3274749401,size=m]
  • Profile photo of Arioch Morningstar

    …..that most people do not develop basic survival skills anymore. It’s called “civilization.”

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  • Tangent & Funky Name Brother; Founder of the Gutter Brethren; Frequent [flickr-photo:id=3274749401,size=m]
  • Profile photo of athanas

    There will always be conflict; it’s naive to think that such a thing won’t happen. Regardless of how good things can get, there will be people who exploit it for their own personal gain at the expense of others. It’s a sad truth, but is just the way some humans are hardwired.

    By “us vs. them” being a problem in this country, I’m referring to the fact that it keeps the masses battling each other instead of coming together to actually get things done and accomplish real change. It keeps people from asking questions and actually getting the people we’ve elected to represent us to actually represent the voice of the people instead of the interests of those who paid for them to get where they are.
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    Profile photo of athanas

    With our society turning into one of such instant gratification, many people are not willing to go the extra mile to research what they need to know. For a very, very long time we’ve been given fish on a nearly constant basis, but no one really knows how to fish anymore.

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    Profile photo of Arioch Morningstar

    ….if we all nuke each other and exterminate humanity, that would be a change. Right?

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  • Tangent & Funky Name Brother; Founder of the Gutter Brethren; Frequent [flickr-photo:id=3274749401,size=m]
  • Profile photo of Arioch Morningstar

    Does the United States even have a free press anymore?

    I don’t think so. I believe that our media outlets have become polluted by greed, politics, and fear of saying something that would anger the powers that be. Compare today’s profit based news services to those of 30-50 years ago. Think of how much comeliness has become a job requirement for being on a news program. Who’s more likely to get a job predicting the weather: the guy with the degree in meteorology or the prom queen? The integrity of the American journalist has suffered a steady decline IMHO.

    I suspect the US government somehow influences news outlets what to print/show on the air. Heaven forbid that we actually see footage of Americans dying/getting wounded in Iraq or Afghanistan. Look at the difference in coverage between US news and international news outlets (BBC, Al Jazeera, etc.). Graphic depiction of American casualties might undermine the political support that our leaders need to justify all the $$$ we keep pouring into wars overseas. We might realize that the troops we support so much are actually in real danger. Pictures might pierce the veil of denial the American public seems to be under that war isn’t all that bad.

    And even if we presuppose that American news outlets are giving accurate coverage, the way you tell “the truth” will always color the way the reader/listener receives that information. That’s nearly impossible to get rid of, but American news has become pretty bad about it on BOTH sides of the political fence. Depending on what paper/network you watch, you can see the exact same story with the same set of facts and come away thinking that two totally different things happened. There’s something broken in a news system that works that way.

    We need to get the money (ie corruption) and politics (ie bias) out of the news services if we want them to be truly free. No newspaper/party/network is more to blame than any other; all of them are equally guilty IMHO. Yet a truly free press needs to remain unbiased and uninfluenced by outside forces. It’s incredibly difficult goal to achieve, but American news outlets seem to be drifting in the opposite direction of what they should be.

    Biased news coverage does nothing but propagate the ‘We’ vs. ‘Them’ attitude. Of course people are going to watch/read something that leans more towards what they already believe. Shouldn’t the goal be to aim for uniform objectivity so everyone can make an informed decision for themselves? At present all we’re doing is selling different varieties of subjective news. Le sigh. </political rant of despair>

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  • Tangent & Funky Name Brother; Founder of the Gutter Brethren; Frequent [flickr-photo:id=3274749401,size=m]
  • Profile photo of Danny Lundy

    [flickr-photo:id=5069323983,size=m] The quiet guy in the corner, figuring out how to destroy all of you.

    Profile photo of athanas

    Blue vs. Red, Gay vs. Straight, Atheist vs. Theist…

    Us vs. Them mentality is why nothing will ever truly be changed.

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    Profile photo of Renee Jordan

    …that was your intention. Maybe it’s just me, I tend to get very nervous when topics like this come up among groups of people I like… old habits, I guess. I won’t comment on whether or not I agree with what they are doing, but I will say that I believe in the concept of journalistic freedom, and that if the Powers That Be are going to go after WikiLeaks, then they also need to go after any other organization that has published such sensitive information, like The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Guardian, and many many more publishers all over the world. Apply the standard uniformly instead of targeting a single publisher as some kind of “example.”

    Abaddon, Baphomet, Samael, “that bitch who stole my wallet”… I am known by many names.

    Sgt. Renee Jordan PUMC, PUV James Keeling

    Profile photo of Beth_Ailis

    Like many of the other posts, I’m not 100% sure of how to feel or what is the “truth”, possibly those are connected. I didn’t hear the thing about the UK troops, that wasn’t a good thing to say. I understand the troops and their families being ticked off.

    Hopefully there will be some good coming out of this – maybe, just maybe the US will tighten up on security of sensitive info and those vulnerable targets can get some attention BEFORE there’s a problem.

    [flickr-photo:id=5069365035, size=m] [flickr-photo:id=4347154616] Pusher and member of the Gutter Sistren

    Profile photo of Stephen Wood

    thats your honest opinion which is what I’m after, thank youLaughing

    Profile photo of Arioch Morningstar

    Wikileaks exists, therefore the world must deal with it. My being for or against it will not change that fact.

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  • Tangent & Funky Name Brother; Founder of the Gutter Brethren; Frequent [flickr-photo:id=3274749401,size=m]
  • Profile photo of Arioch Morningstar

    I never realized that was something we “vehemently avoided” however. These kinds of threads do come up from time to time, but I think our community is mature enough to realize that there is no “right” answer or “absolute truth” so we don’t wind up in flame wars. The most I’ve seen is intellectual debates which quickly agree to disagree as having differing points of view.

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  • Tangent & Funky Name Brother; Founder of the Gutter Brethren; Frequent [flickr-photo:id=3274749401,size=m]
  • Profile photo of Stephen Wood

    However I would like to point out that I’m not trying to marshall a “Us vs them” thing just interested in what peoples opinions are on the subject weither they are for or against.

    Profile photo of Renee Jordan

    …that this topic strays entirely too close to a political discussion, which we vehemently try to avoid here on the Sigler forums. Topics like politics and religion tend to be very divisive and engender “Us vs. Them” ideas. The only “Us” that I like to see here on the Sigler forums is the collective Junkie Nation, and the only “Them” are all the unwashed masses out there who, much like the Visigoth hordes slouching their way toward Rome, simply have not yet been introduced to the wonderful and terrible enlightenment of our Future Dark Overlord.

    Abaddon, Baphomet, Samael, “that bitch who stole my wallet”… I am known by many names.

    Sgt. Renee Jordan PUMC, PUV James Keeling

    Profile photo of Arioch Morningstar

    ….intelligently. I can see potential pros and cons behind the ideals, but it all comes down to the details. And I’d bet there are numerous viewpoints on what the truth of those details are. The politics of truth as it were.

    For instance, there are two sides to publishing weak security at a military installation or infrastructure target. Unless the attack happens quicker than the defenders can beef up security, it forces the US to fix the problem. Without wikileaks, that problem may have continued until the attackers found the weakness themselves and exploited it on their own. This is definitely a gray subject. There’s no black or white here.

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  • Tangent & Funky Name Brother; Founder of the Gutter Brethren; Frequent [flickr-photo:id=3274749401,size=m]
  • Profile photo of Stephen Wood

    I like Barack, shame he gets alot of bad press, i do remember him saying that he wanted a more open policy. I won’t go on a “I love Obama” rant or we’ll be here for days. There is a difference between open and exposing potentially dangerous material, Wikilinks are the latter,

    Don’t put yourselves down too much, you are hated by the ignorant, not everyoneLaughing

    Profile photo of Zach Brence

    I personally have been following this whole story with bated breath, and even knowing everything I know about it, I’m still not sure how to feel about it. It’s a very complicated situation. On the one hand, President Obama has been saying he wanted more transparent government. That was practically his election platform. On the other hand, there is some potentially inflammatory stuff in there. Could it harm our relations with the rest of the world? Possibly

    Will it do any more damage than we’ve already done just by being America? Doubtful. All this does is justify what they already believed was the right decision. We’re already in the grave, we’re just digging ourselves deeper now, as far as they’re concerned.

    God, I freakin’ hate politics.

    Profile photo of Stephen Wood

    You just put that a hell of alot better than I ever could! Nice one on the first response, very well put.

    I don’t think its going to affect negativly between world leaders, there was that thing about some guy in the US military saying that UK troops were shy of fighting or something. Thank kinda pissed a few people over here, the families of the guys in Afganistan fighting were really pissed. TBF who can blame them, but that is just someone leaking things that are just going to stir and create situations between governments and people to get publicity. I have loads of respect for the armed forces of both the US and UK, I have a few friends who serve, they deserve support not people trying to set them against each other,

    Profile photo of Beth_Ailis

    There’s a lot of truth to what you say… I’m all for a free press (J-school grad here), but I do think that some of the state department stuff could hurt diplomatic efforts for a long time to come. (Not the silly name-calling stuff). There does appear to be some negligence in the sensitive information they are publishing.

    Not sure they can be prosecuted — they aren’t in the USA. But the people who gave them the stuff sure should be — AND it points out how completely lax the security is. I don’t think I consider this latest batch of stuff to be in the “whistle blower” realm. Unless I’m missing a lot (and I might be) there were more things of an ethical, political nature than criminal uncovered.

    It’s a very complicated situation and question. I do think that it will have a great effect on what people in sensitive positions will be willing to document — is that going to have a negative effect on world relations?

    [flickr-photo:id=5069365035, size=m] [flickr-photo:id=4347154616] Pusher and member of the Gutter Sistren

    Profile photo of Stephen Wood

    Nice and simple, I’m from the UK so really what they blow whisles over doesn’t really effect me but I wanted to get your opinions, many of you being from the US of A and all.

    Does anyone here agree with what Wikileaks stand for and what they do? IMHO I don’t, I didn’t mind and found it interesting some of the things they dug up like GW Bush using a chinook to get a sunday paper etc. However what they dig up now is starting to get more in depth and also things that really I find quite detestable. Like recently when they leaked documents that pointed out major pipe lines and infrastructure that wasn’t that heavily garded and that could be potential terrorist targets. Well done fucktard if they didn’t know before they sure as fuck know now! fair enough digging up stuff that is relatively harmless and just embarising but don’t put inocent lives at risk by comprimising secure locations and stuff.

    Anyway thats my 2p, what do you guys think?

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