This topic contains 31 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by Avatar of Jeffrey Moore Jeffrey Moore 5 years, 5 months ago.

The Trek Movie – spoiler alert****

  • Avatar of Jeffrey Moore

    I feel like there is a lot of anger here.  Can’t we all just hug and kiss like Spock and Ohura?  Its the sensible thing to do.   

    Disclaimer: Unless otherwise stated I have no idea what I’m talking about.

    Avatar of Jeffrey Moore

    Trust anyone driving a 92 Ford Festiva.   

    Those things are dangerous.  DANGEROUSLY SEXY!!

    Disclaimer: Unless otherwise stated I have no idea what I’m talking about.

    Avatar of Evan Curry

     with a tv budget its cheaper 2 make them humanoid

    ~~There are many types of heros, I am one who just happens to eat brains~`

    • Leader Of UNdead for Sigler
    Avatar of Ciarán Purcell

    4 – Oh right like the whole killing Sarah Connor in Terminator thing. To stop John Connor from being born. Or what Marty McFly does by accident. But then fixes it.

    20 – The Orion thing was a bit stupid. Even leaving out the Nog example the Orions back then (i’m aware it’s technically the future but you know what i mean) were still pirates and highly unlikely to even aspire to enrole in Starfleet. I don’t think they thought about that too much

    5 – Spock would NEVER experience emotions like that intentionally. Unless maybe it was a mind meld.

    7 – I don’t think the black holes in the film were real black holes. There were no tidal forces, no time dilation, no length contraction, no complete tearing apart of all atoms. Maybe it was something resembling a black hole. Also the first black hole seen transports things back in time, and with varying space-time trajectories, or with a varying time-coordinate anyway. It would also bypass the whole Chandrasekar Limit for stars. That’d still be a pretty bad explanation.

    18 – I agree. The warp bubble formed in ordinary space-time would surround the ship with a bubble of ordinary space-time while travelling through subspace, so the bubble of ordinary space-time goes to warp and just happens to drag the ship with it. Sort of like an instantaneous rest frame in relativity. Even if that didn’t cover it and you wanted to talk about collision between the bubble and subspace matter that’s what they have the deflector shields for.

    Captain Picard: Mister Crusher SHUT UP! Doctor, get this child off my bridge.

    Jules: Where you from? Guy: What?! Jules: "What?!"?! They speak English in "What?&quo

    Avatar of Pons Matal

    Thats why I said "for the most part". I went on to say that it is a work of FICTION & Hollywood, as always, has the option to bastadize or repackage most anything they want or can in the name of potential profits. Do you really think they care all that much about "canon"? Not that we all will like or agree with it, but thats show biz.

     
     

    "What the hell is happening? I blew up the building. Why? Because you made a phone call."

    Avatar of James Eager
  • The items I was quoting do NOT get answered by the timeline changes, that’s the whole point.
  • Whomever wrote the plot did not have anywhere near the knowledge of the canon of ST to even hope to get it right. 
  • Sergeant and Fire Team Leader, X-ray company, DOMREC.  And now a pusher too!
Avatar of Pons Matal
The alternate timeline card works to fill in any inequities for the most part. The rest they expect you to take in stride. After all, when its said and done, It just Sci-Fiction Hollywood style.  :)
 

"What the hell is happening? I blew up the building. Why? Because you made a phone call."

Avatar of Pons Matal
Becareful and dont cut yourself, or anybody else!
 

"What the hell is happening? I blew up the building. Why? Because you made a phone call."

Avatar of Renee Jordan

Why is it that almost every alien species in Star Trek is humanoid? Its always either that or "its life Jim, but not as we know it." 

Astrobiologists will tell you that it is highly unlikely that intelligent life from another planet would have evolved a phenotype so similar to our own. That’s why I like The Rookie so much. Scott really plays the far more likely notion that alien life would indeed be alien to us. 

Just run the plays I call, Barnes!

Avatar of Renee Jordan

Eh, lets just fall back on the tried and true "alternate timeline" excuse then ;) 

Just run the plays I call, Barnes!

Avatar of Evan Curry

 i even own a batleth

~~Hey, what kinda party is this? There’s no booze and only one hooker~~

Avatar of Pons Matal
They were there, they were just off screen and across the galaxy! :)
 

"What the hell is happening? I blew up the building. Why? Because you made a phone call."

Avatar of Evan Curry

 i was a sad that there was none

~~Hey, what kinda party is this? There’s no booze and only one hooker~~

Avatar of James Eager
  • 1 – I think that little detail was a correction to an inconsistency in the canon. Since Vulcans and Romulans are really the same race with differing philosophies, it is perfectly plausable and in fact quite likely that the Vulcans would have shared a great amount of information on them with Humans. It makes more sense that Humans would have known what Romulans looked like.

  •  However, even by "Balance of Terror"  (Season 1, original series), even SPOCK did not know that Romulans were that offshoot fo the Vulcan race.

    4 – Since that first encounter was occured apparently right at the time of Kirk’s birth (thus Spock’s as well), it makes sense that Nero would be trying to kill Spock’s father to prevent Spock from ever being born. I got the impression that their time-travel technology was not very exact, so he couldn’t be sure exactly sure where in the time line they landed. I get the impression that he thought they went back farther than they actually did.

    Nope, he asked for Sarek, then showed Spock’s ship.  Error in the script. 

    5 – I got the impression that Spock and Uhura were an item long before the events of the movie. I did think it was neat how they portrayed Spock as having to constantly struggle against his Human side to keep his emotions in check, yet heh does allow himself to experience some level of emotion.

     Horsehockey.

    7 – The whole red matter / black hole thing is just a deus ex machina. The Chandrasekhar Limit states that you need a star of at least 1.44 solar masses to have sufficient mass to collapse into a singularity. Later it was shown that some white dwarf stars meeting the Chandrasekhar standard would collapse into neutron stars. Either way, there is simply no way, regardless of any advanced technology, that a little drop of red goo could create a black hole.

    Yup, garbage all the way.

    11 – Yeah I totally agree. An impulsive kid who has absolutely no practical experience aboard a star ship might get to inventory the laundry or something, but that’s about it.

    Yup 

    17 – I guess it was one badass mining ship.

    Ya Think?

    18 – Warp travel would not require shields since the ship is not actually moving through its local space. The matter-antimatter reactor generates the massive amounts of energy required to create gravitons (currently a highly theoretical particle) which form the warp bubble. By manipulating the graviton field, the bubble can contract spacetime in front of the craft and extend it behind the craft. Technically it should be possible to go into warp sideways or backwards by simply manipulating the graviton field. Since the spacetime immediately around the craft is inside the bubble and everything inside is essentially motionless, there would be no need for shields.

    It is theoretically possible to create a Star Trek-type warp bubble, but physicists predict that it would require far more energy than could thepretically be produced, something along the lines of several large stars worth of energy. Additionally, since the warp bubble forms a seperation boundry between the localized spacetime and the outside spacetime, it could not be controlled from the inside. Its a neat idea, but not very likely.

    Canon has shields up during warp travel, you don’t throw away canon to get bad plot.

     20 – If I remember correctly, the Ferengi were not Federation members either, yet Quark’s nephew attended the Academy and became a Star Fleet officer. Based on that precedent, it is possible that individual Orions joined Star Fleet.

    The difference is that Naug was sponsered for his academy entrance by a starfleet captain, from a "nation state" that was at least friendly to the Federation.  By "Journey to Babel", Orions were still pirates and not an ally of the federation. 

    Sergeant and Fire Team Leader, X-ray company, DOMREC.  And now a pusher too!

    Avatar of Renee Jordan

    Overall I thought the movie was really entertaining and the acting was pretty good. Could have done with less lens flares though. The end left me a little cold though. Kirk and crew had not even completed the Academy, yet he is made captian and the rest of the crew stays on as well? They were all either teenagers or in their early 20s. I don’t like the idea of trusting a kid with a ’92 Ford Festiva, much less a star ship! I mean what’s next, the cast of One Tree Hill or The OC showing up as members of an away team? (lets hope they’re all wearing red shirts).

    Now on to a few of the specific points:

    1 – I think that little detail was a correction to an inconsistency in the canon. Since Vulcans and Romulans are really the same race with differing philosophies, it is perfectly plausable and in fact quite likely that the Vulcans would have shared a great amount of information on them with Humans. It makes more sense that Humans would have known what Romulans looked like.

    4 – Since that first encounter was occured apparently right at the time of Kirk’s birth (thus Spock’s as well), it makes sense that Nero would be trying to kill Spock’s father to prevent Spock from ever being born. I got the impression that their time-travel technology was not very exact, so he couldn’t be sure exactly sure where in the time line they landed. I get the impression that he thought they went back farther than they actually did.

    5 – I got the impression that Spock and Uhura were an item long before the events of the movie. I did think it was neat how they portrayed Spock as having to constantly struggle against his Human side to keep his emotions in check, yet heh does allow himself to experience some level of emotion.

    7 – The whole red matter / black hole thing is just a deus ex machina. The Chandrasekhar Limit states that you need a star of at least 1.44 solar masses to have sufficient mass to collapse into a singularity. Later it was shown that some white dwarf stars meeting the Chandrasekhar standard would collapse into neutron stars. Either way, there is simply no way, regardless of any advanced technology, that a little drop of red goo could create a black hole.

    11 – Yeah I totally agree. An impulsive kid who has absolutely no practical experience aboard a star ship might get to inventory the laundry or something, but that’s about it.

    17 – I guess it was one badass mining ship.

    18 – Warp travel would not require shields since the ship is not actually moving through its local space. The matter-antimatter reactor generates the massive amounts of energy required to create gravitons (currently a highly theoretical particle) which form the warp bubble. By manipulating the graviton field, the bubble can contract spacetime in front of the craft and extend it behind the craft. Technically it should be possible to go into warp sideways or backwards by simply manipulating the graviton field. Since the spacetime immediately around the craft is inside the bubble and everything inside is essentially motionless, there would be no need for shields.

    It is theoretically possible to create a Star Trek-type warp bubble, but physicists predict that it would require far more energy than could thepretically be produced, something along the lines of several large stars worth of energy. Additionally, since the warp bubble forms a seperation boundry between the localized spacetime and the outside spacetime, it could not be controlled from the inside. Its a neat idea, but not very likely.

     20 – If I remember correctly, the Ferengi were not Federation members either, yet Quark’s nephew attended the Academy and became a Star Fleet officer. Based on that precedent, it is possible that individual Orions joined Star Fleet.

    That is about enough uber-geeking for me this evening. 

    Just run the plays I call, Barnes!

    Avatar of Evan Curry

    ~~Hey, what kinda party is this? There’s no booze and only one hooker~~

    Avatar of Wolf

    The PUV James Keeling (AKA The Crypt) when they first saw the Romulan ship?

    (BTW; Great Review by Nuchtchas @ http://www.scifidig.com/ )

    [flickr-photo:id=3383210176,size=m]

    Avatar of Evan Curry

     bout spock got some

    Im a  friend of death, a brother of luck and a son of a bitch!

    Avatar of Ciarán Purcell

    A lot of people get those mixed up. The numbers anyway. Six was alright. Brock Peters was in it!!

    I’m tired of this back-slapping "Isn’t humanity neat?" bullshit. We’re a virus with shoes, okay? That’s all we are. – Bill Hicks

    Mister Crusher SHUT UP! Doctor, get this child off my bridge… – Captain Picard<

    Avatar of Pons Matal
     Who wouldnt want to kiss Spock! Uh, I mean Uhura…..  :p
     

    "What the hell is happening? I blew up the building. Why? Because you made a phone call."

    Avatar of Pons Matal
     I thought it was an excellent movie myself. I try not to delve to far into actual science or the indepth prior history of a show. After all it is Sci-FICTION! :)  And just like the wonderfully amazing Gmork, I to like to sit back, suspend reality and enjoy. 
     
    I once read a blog that was being posted to prior to the release of the first Spiderman. The heated discussion was over the fact that Spidey in the new flick was to have organic web shooters and not the original wrist mounted chemical based web shooters. One side argued that his body could not supply the necessary amounts of fluid to produce such mass amount of webbing. The other side claimed he could and that the containers he carried in the original comics couldn’t come close to supply the amount of webbing he typical uses…..I think.. they had to much time on their hands or forgot, as some people do, its Sci-FICTION! Ok, rant over, getting off my soap box…
     

    "What the hell is happening? I blew up the building. Why? Because you made a phone call."

    Avatar of James Olson

    and what about Spock and Uhura going out and kissing together…I mean Euuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

    Someone need to Infect them with the Crawlers!!!

    Avatar of Mathis Wrenn

    What part of alternate reality is confusing you?

    "Yes, I’m a hick, whats your point?"
    Western Carolina Catamounts Sports update: The 2nd place Catamounts Baseball team takes on SoCon League Leader Elon University Pheonix

    Avatar of Gmork

    …is that when it comes down to it, it’s mostly imaginary.  I actually really liked this movie. Lots of explosions, nods to the old school Trek shows, nods to Trek fan films, unexpected twists and as shiny as I hope the future will be.  I put this movie in the same category as Armaggedon…suspend reality, sit back and enjoy.

    _________________________________________________

    –Gmork (MP, CA, WC, TG, MoGC, AAGC, PWTG, TBG)

    Avatar of Pons Matal
    The crew had a discussion on the bridge about their time line changing due to the Romulans appearance. They had said that at the point of the Romulans incursion into the past their destiny’s had changed creating an alternate reality for them. 
     
    Also future Spock tells young Kirk that in Spocks time stream, the original Star Trek time stream, Kirk had known his Father and his Father was instrumental in Kirks joining Star Fleet. This is true to the original Star Trek storyline/time stream, but the young Kirk in new time stream never knew his father and It was Captain Pike who was instrumental in getting young Kirk to join.
     
    As for Spock & Uhura I would again say that Spock was one of her Instructors during her time at the academy. Thus, I would think it was prudent she/they would keep their relationship under wraps as not to have possibly fraternization charges (it being a military academy) brought against them.  Thus Uhura would deny that she was seeing anyone….
     

    "What the hell is happening? I blew up the building. Why? Because you made a phone call."

    Avatar of James Eager
  • I thought that was 6.  If so, reverse those numbers…. 
  • Sergeant and Fire Team Leader, X-ray company, DOMREC.  And now a pusher too!
  • Avatar of James Eager
  • That was interupted.
  • As for the Uhura part – she stated she was seeing NOBODY at the academy.
  • And on and on.  Just not paying attention to the details all the way thru. 
  • Sergeant and Fire Team Leader, X-ray company, DOMREC.  And now a pusher too!
  • Avatar of Ciarán Purcell

    The fifth film was shit. The one with Syboc and the search for God in the galaxy’s core? Rubbish… In my opinion anyway:)

    And the get-out-of-jail free card for all those flaws is… Alternate reality! The old Star Trek classic. They did sort of undermine every single other Star Trek event though… And there was no attempt to even salvage the timeline… Also i thought a warp reactor would be beyond water coolant, what with the cold vacuum of space and all. Also being able to see a black hole is contradictory. Also transwarp transporters have never been possible in previous Star Treks. Also the whole Orion Syndicate thing (not in the Federation). Sensors looked understandable though. And the going-to-warp sound was a cool gut-thump. Most of this is repitition of what Mycroft said though! Nobody can identify Romulans let alone speak all three dialects. Maybe after the Kepler incident they sought out the Romulans and espionaged the shit out of them. Not the best ever.(First Contact, Wrath of Khan, Nemesis, Insurrection)

    I’m tired of this back-slapping "Isn’t humanity neat?" bullshit. We’re a virus with shoes, okay? That’s all we are. – Bill Hicks

    Mister Crusher SHUT UP! Doctor, get this child off my bridge… – Captain Picard<

    Avatar of Pons Matal
    playing on the fact that a lot of the changes you mentioned were due to the interruption and shift of the time line due to the Romulans travel through the black hole, ie Uhura and Spock, green lady etc, thus creating an alternate reality different from the Star Trek we originally knew. As for Uhura and Spock, I dont know if she actually threw herself at him. There seemed, at least to me, there was some familiarity between them, as if they had been seeing each other at the Academy. Teacher/Student relations would still be taboo I would think and most likely be hidden.
     
    The rest we can just chalk up to Hollywood doing what they want…..
     

    "What the hell is happening? I blew up the building. Why? Because you made a phone call."

    Avatar of James Eager
  • then either.
  • Movies 1-4 sucked
  • 5 was so-so
  • 6 sucked
  • and 9 and 10 were pretty good. 
  •   
  • Sergeant and Fire Team Leader, X-ray company, DOMREC.  And now a pusher too!
  • Avatar of Tony Faulkner

    It was just the same when STNG started, klingons changed etc…..but look how popular that was?

    "Who is Number One?", "You, are Number Six!", "I am not a number, I am a free man!"

    Avatar of James Eager

    I’m going to start listing all the faults with the new movie, chime in with new ones (It isn’t a short list).

    1.  Romulans were not known by Kirk’s time on sight (Reference, show "Balance of Terror")

    2.  A ship of the Kelvin’s apparent class was smaller then Enterprise.  Enterprise had a crew of 432 (Many shows).   How the heck did the Kelvin have 800+ crew?

    3.  Families were not aboard Federation ships in Kirk’s time, let alone his father’s time.  (Farpoint, Picard’s statements)

    4.  Nero asked for Ambassador Sarek from the first captain, not Ambassador Spock.  Oops……

    5.  Uhura was all business at the Academy – why in the … would she throw herself at Spock after Vulcan imploded?

    6.  Spock and Kirk marooned on a  planet within close viewing distance from Vulcan – but it was labeled Drago 4?  Oops – Vulcan was in the Tau Ceti system, so even if that was right, it would have been Tau Ceti 4.

    7.  Spock was viewing up close the black holing of Vulcan – too close.  Another planet that close to a black hole would have gone right in….

    8.  Romulas was wiped out by the nova – great, why wasn’t the twin planet Remas wiped out with it?

    9.  If the Vulcan Academy could see the nova coming in time to build a special ship, and develop black hole building science, then why didn’t the Romulans see the nova coming (since they had equivalent tech) and evacuate the planet?

    10.  If Nero had 25 years to wait for Spock (and 129 more beyond that) to wait for the nova, why didn’t he just go prevent the wiping out of the Romulan people via the nova?

    11.  The promotion of Kirk to First Officer.  Get off it, there is no way in …. that would have happened.

    12.  Sulu was always an excellent pilot (considered best in the fleet more then once) – get off that dampner thing.

    13.  Sulu using a sword on the drill – no, it is not a throw down to Star Wars.  It is an actual reference to Sulu (George Takai) using a foil in the first season of the original series, long before there was a Star Wars (10 years before).

    14.  Why the … was Ambassador Spock trying to fly the rescue craft to that star?  Logistically, it makes no sense, since he was already on Romulas at the time, still working for re-unification.  (Next Generation)

    15. Manual targeting of the transporter?  Since when?

    16. Water piping thru engineering on the Enterprise?  Huh, what was that for?  Just to make fun of Scotty, of course….

    17.  Six ships wiped out at Vulcan in less then 5 minutes (that’s how far behind the Enterprise was, according to the movie).

    18.  Enterprise traveling without shields up?  Wrong, wrong, wrong.  So many times it was shown that shields were up to prevent strikes by object during warp flight.

    19.  You get a distress call for an unkown reason and you go in weapons hot – always.  It is much easier to drop the weapons then get them powered up in time.  Sheesh….

    20.  The green woman Kirk was making out with?  Tribute to the Orion slave girl of the first pilot, right?  Oops – Orions were never part of the Federation – see ("Journey to Babel") 

    That’s 20, good start for this topic…..

    My guess is that the writers only looked at the previous movies and really didn’t go look at the original series much.  They took the mistakes of the movies and magnified them in this movie.

    I write this as an "ORIGINAL TREKKIE".  On Sept 8, 1966, I was watching the first showing, the great salt vampire ("Mantrap").  I participated in the letter writing campaign that brought the original series back for season three.  I know the canon of the show backwards and forwards, and the above list is just off the top of my head what was wrong with the movie.

    Gene Roddenberry (I went to see him speak once, live) would be spinning in his grave, because this was not about the future he wanted to portray.

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