This topic contains 19 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by Profile photo of Rickard Pettersson Rickard Pettersson 3 years, 10 months ago.

Nocturnal tri-somal relationships

  • Profile photo of Rickard Pettersson

    Yeah, that’s what I was thinking would be the possibilities for mommy. The nondisjunction in the king is likely what most confused me, I was thinking his alternatives would look similar to the scheme for mommy you drew, only with more options due to having three different sex chromosomes.

    If at first you don’t succeed, remove all evidence you ever tried.

    Profile photo of Shirley Bruce

    the Z and X chromosomes from Mommy have to align with each other during the first meiosis. If not, all her gametes whould have two Z’s and one X (or three sex chromosomes) really complicating the sexual makeup. This would still leave one unpartnered chromosome that would travel with one of the partnered chromosomes. It would also give Mommy the ability to make gametes that are ZZ or ZX which would produce Kings, abominations and unknowns when mating with a normal male. Mating with a King would produce some offspring that have 4 sex chromosomes likely to be unviable. The female gametes that received only one sex chromosome (ie didn’t contain the unpartnered chromosome) could produce viable offspring with a King. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. I might need to draw this out to explain. If so, let me know.

    You can see my drawing here http://www.flickr.com/photos/34463593@N03/5474725116/

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    Profile photo of Rickard Pettersson

    of course 4 gametes, embarrassing mistake on my part.

    If at first you don’t succeed, remove all evidence you ever tried.

    Profile photo of Shirley Bruce

    meiosis takes a cell and divides it into 4 gametes (only one of which is viable in the female). Recarding the King – there is always nondisjunction in the King so the only possibilites there would be XY, XZ or YZ. Now regarding Mommy – there are some problems there. It seems that with the Queen there is always complete disjunction but that doesn’t seem possible because when the chromosomes align during the first meiosis you would expect the two Z’s especially or the ZX to align with one another. I suppose Scott could claim complete disjunction of the sex chromosomes in the female. A second possibility in the female is that the two Z’s or the ZX do align leaving one chromosome without a partner. The cells that obtain the partnerless chromosome could then become unviable gametes. I’ll need to think about this some more.

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    Profile photo of Rickard Pettersson

    Given that meiosis takes a cell and divides it into 2 gametes, wouldn’t you get one gamete with one sex chromosome and one with two sex chromosome from each division rather than all ones from mommy and all twos from the king? Thus making the possible eggs from mommy x, z, xz and zz and the possible sperms from the king x, z, y, xy, xz and yz.

    The chart on the wiki seems to make a chromosome disappear from mommy, and make the king one short at each meiotic event.

    If at first you don’t succeed, remove all evidence you ever tried.

    Profile photo of Allyson Bower

    i learned it something like four years ago for my AP Biology. but thats the end of its practicality as far as I’m concerned lol. Normal punnet squares are 2×2, im pretty sure the info in Nocturnal uses a 3×3 which is entirely plausable, but much more difficult to explain. i might suggests finding it drawn out somewhere. and Scott, if your out there listening (reading?) might i suggest putting using an image of the punnet square in the Nocturnal hardcover?

    Profile photo of Renee Jordan

    That scene popped into my head, made me chukle.

    **Conjunction Junction, what’s your function? No seriously, I slept through grammar class, so I have no idea what you do.**

    Profile photo of steve libby

    What he was trying to say was… was …. yup. scratch that. My brain kinda hurts too and as well.

    Take no prisoners. Take no ….huh?!

    Profile photo of Wiley Allard

    Ow my feeble brain it hurts.

    Profile photo of Gmork

    Any assistance would be appreciated!
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    Gmork – Wiki Czar and Thwackacutioner

    Profile photo of Shirley Bruce

    My favorite toasty Wiki Czar to the rescue. Perhaps I can add some verbiage!

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    Profile photo of Gmork

    That’s a really succinct and accurate summary of the whole concept!
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    Gmork – Wiki Czar and Thwackacutioner

    Profile photo of Gmork

    That’s right…soak up all that FDO knowledge in the wiki, my pretties :)
    ———–
    Gmork – Wiki Czar and Thwackacutioner

    Profile photo of Gmork

    it is in the wiki, it’s just wicked misspelled. It’s entered as a Pundit Square….revisions to the entry to come.

    EDIT: ok, kinda ghetto for the time being but I added the Punnett Square table to Mommy’s entry for now. Needs to be fleshed out with some verbiage but at least the table is there for now. Thanks MuchAdo for finding the error.

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    Gmork – Wiki Czar and Thwackacutioner

    Profile photo of Belladonna420

    I just spent the last 15 minutes searching the wiki for that! Well, actually maybe 3-5 minutes actually looking for that info…. then I followed a link, then another, and another, etc…. that wiki!! Sucks you in everytime!!

    ____________________________________________

    Pusher, Co-Founder of the Gutter Sistren & [flickr-photo:id=3938763689,size=m]

    Profile photo of Dave Johnson

    So with the same probability as within human populations of producing Kleinfelter’s syndromes, the nondisjunction that needs to occur to make a gamete that would result in an king could occur in the human donor doing the groom’s walk or in a similarly rare case of nondisjuncture from mommy. This is why I love these novels/podcasts the “magic” follows rules that are tangible and I can logic my way through (eventually and with help from peeps here)

    Thank you very muchly muchado

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    Pusher, Poet and Pet Protector

    Profile photo of Shirley Bruce

    your question, Marie is ZZX

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    Profile photo of Shirley Bruce

    …. it wasn’t in the wiki. http://www.scottsigler.com/node/1547

    [flickr-photo:id=3938763689,size=m] and friend of GirlCo’s official mascot

    Profile photo of Shirley Bruce

    …. already in the wiki with that information? Seems like there is.

    [flickr-photo:id=3938763689,size=m] and friend of GirlCo’s official mascot

    Profile photo of Dave Johnson

    The curse of Sigler crack strikes again!

    After spending several days finding ways to avoid studying for a Bio exam, I finally sat down and managed to gain some momentum until I came to the topic of Meiosis and sexual gametes. I got about halfway through and yet again became distracted by the whole conundrum of the tri-somal separation into gametes from either Mommy or a King. I am fairly sure that Stone Mason, yes that’s his real name, mentions that Mommy is tri-somal as is Rex and that some of the gametes from each end with 2 sex chromosomes rather than the normal haploid 1. With this in mind I set about trying to construct a table of all the possible combinations from tri-somal gamete fertilisation with either regular humans or other tri-somals (I did not include regular nocturnals as I’m fairly sure that it’s mentioned that they are sterile when they examine Marco Machete’s family jewels).

    My problem arose when I got to establish that there were 3 possible tri-somal makeups and could not remember which mommy was.

    can anyone clarify if mommy is XXZ or XZZ please? I suspected the former but if that is the case I now am burdened by what an XZZ would turn out like and whether or not it would be capable of producing viable gametes.

    It just goes to show what lengths I will go to to avoid revision!

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