Scott, you need to ask why 700 pages is too long when Harry Potter gets away with it all the time, and 300 of those pages are spent sitting in the woods doing nothing or debating whether Harry should talk to Dumbledore.  And your book has the benefit of being an original idea.  I will end that rant there. 

If you were to cut back, the whole Johnny Yee (or whatever his name was) stuff could be cut back.  Don't even show him getting attacked, just have Brian and Pookie investigate it.  Similarly, don't show Aggie being taken.  Aggie wakes up in the cell and sees Johnny.  Their conversation fills in how they got there.  Johnny's whole family can be left out too, just him and Aggie.  Johnny gets nabbed and then Hillary takes Aggie to see the grooms walk and hands him the baby. Have Aggie get caught in the subway and move his story straight to the hospital from there.  Aggie wakes up due to the fighting and uses that as a distraction to steal the baby and flee.  Leave it hanging like that so it can lead to your plans for the sequel (King 2.0?).   

If you have to split it into two parts then I agree that moving that stuff into the second book is the way to go.  That way the only hint at their underground lair that we get in the first part is when Rex is presented as King. I will have to go back and relisten to the story as a whole to see if I can find anywhere else to split it.

and actually followed through and i now have my very own heavily customized savior cross tattoo.  ill get a pic up as soon as i can.  i basically took the pic off of the wiki page and told the guy what i wanted and he made it happen and its fuckin sick if i do say so myself

I'm going to hell because i need a vacation

while relistening to the whole of nocturnal on the way to visit parents and family over Christmas noticed a few things with regard to the plot and wrote them on a post it note and then lost said post it note.  I can remember a few:

Rex and Roberta

    Roberta said to pookie and brian that she moved to the city cause it would be a better place

    Rex thinks about how he has been in many foster homes but roberta was on his birth certificate.

Couple of other ideas for expanding if you felt like going to 3 books.

    I can't remember her name but the chick in the archives, her back story with what happened with the Grand Park Slasher that caused her to cry in the car.

    Big tonda murphy, BMB, and Pookie's stories about being rescued by brian,

Just my $0.03AUD worth.

just because he has the "potential" to be a king doesnt mean that hes going to take up the mantle of king.  Rex had basically spent his whole life wondering what it would be like to be the leader of his own group so when he was presented with the oppurtunity to lead the very people that felt like "his" people he felt that his natural role was that of the King.  If you remember it took Rex's plan actually starting to work in order for First Born to become his follower. Everyone else was so enrapured by the idea and proficey of the king that when the one who smelled like a king came along no one seemed to question his leadership.  we know that the influence of the king isnt as powerful as it is perceived because if it was i dont think Sly would have been able to pull of the assassination.

question scott, was the feeling of family what was alerting Marie's Children to Saivors presense and just no one made the connection because of their fear?

I'm going to hell because i need a vacation

First of all, great book. Loved the story, the intrigue, the developing storyline of the Nocturnals. The ultimate conclusion with Rex/Sly/First Born was great. Well done. Very cool that Rex got killed.

My thinking is that you can make this a 500 page book (max) without too much trouble. You take our the Aggie James part. Sure, it was cool and I loved the things about him in the holding cell inside "Home" but save that for book 2. Mommie and home and Aggie's story goes in book two. Save it. Ultimately the details about Johnny Chu and his family going down one by one--it's great, but doesn't fit in here.

You can also ease back on the stuff about Brian having the dreams of the killings. Put it in Brian's POV as a cop finding out about the cases and that streamlines a bunch. What about the boys pissing all over their first kill scenes? Why? Why was Brian getting the boners? I think Scott just wanted to use the word "boner" or "erection" a bunch. He gets his rocks off like that. Also, if Brian's not having them dreams it makes his relationship with Pookie more solid, which I think it needs to be for Pooks to follow him through to the end.

Anyway, just a few thoughts. The good thiing is there's a ton of great stuff here and now it's just time to pick out what's the most awesome--or 500 pages of most-awesome. You can do it. Go for three books or two, but cut a bunch out of here and put it into later books. I think the ending here is great for the end of Book 1. Book 1 is Rex. What's book 2? Brian's back story? The story of the Nocturnals and their home?? Maybe... you decide, my king.

Seth "Palms Daddy" Harwood (OJ) 

author of the Jack Palms Crime series find it at sethharwood.com buy Jack Wakes Up on May 5th to Shake 'Em Down!!!

ok i know that there are all kinds of ways to reedit the story line to reconnect certain plot threads but a common theme that im seeing is that people are saying to reduce the page count, ia to remove the Aggie James subplot and put that in book 2.  while that acheives the goal of shortening the word count it also gives some of the story elements a kick in the teeth.  First off all of these things are happening at the same time which is easy to do in one book, hell its easy to do in two.  the problem i see with this is that a portion if not all of a second book would be a retread through a familiar time line.  and i cant speak for anyone else but after the ending of that book i want to see what happens next not what else happend at the sametime.  as for the plot holes that open up here are a few that i can think of off the top of my head but keep in mind this is removing these things without rewriting them in some other way (im a junkie not a miracle worker).  the parts where hilary is explaining to Aggie that she has been saving the babies who could be king get taken out, which means we are not lead to the conclusion that Rex is somehow majorly important to maries children until much later in the book.  the blanket that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Brian and Erickson were related to the baby thus related to maries children.  

on a more critical thinking level i think this book was more about people seeking redemtion more than anything else.  Brian looking for redepmtion for being killing people and it not effecting him.  that really got into his head and now he knows why he did it.  each person that he killed was to  SAVE the life of not just another person but other cops.  anyone who knows anybody thats in that kind of organization weather it be cops, firefighters, or the military knows that any true member of their ranks is willing to lay down their life (or better yet make someone else pay with theirs) for one of their own. Robin was seeking redemption for thinking with her head and not her heart and it almost cost her the man that she was truely ment to be with.  First Born was trying to protect his people like he had since the first king had pushed them to the brink of extinction (maybe).  he was powerless to stop what happend when the first king and i get the feeling that he had made a personal vow to never allow his people to suffer and be slaughtered openly, even if it ment killing the king.

and then we have aggie james, on the surface a heroin junkie homeless cat who was destined to become a man-stew.  on the inside a tourtured soul, seeking redemption for his inability to stop one of the greatest personal tragedies i think one can experiece, the murder of your wife and child, right in front of you no less.  that will fuck a guy up big time.  Aggie was lost drifting through the oceans of time without a purpose and then one night monsters spirited him away to a terrible place where nightmares didnt hide under your bed they jumped through your fuckin window with a .44 automag.  and in this terrible place a child was born.  a child that reminded him o so much of his own child that was taken from him much to soon.  he was again given a purpose.  to me the way that aggies plot thread was left was perfect.  this man who found redemption in the form of a child walked away from sheer chaos into tranquility.  personally if aggie isnt in a sequal sure ill be a bit disappointed but at the same time its ok because he found his redemption.

or something along those lines idk 

I'm going to hell because i need a vacation

- "I'm risking my life, for people I don't like, for reasons I don't quite understand." - Homer

Love me some Jane Gannon.  Since Jack didn't go back to her maybe we could hook her up with Brian!

"Well. I'll tell you what. You gonna kick it with me. Or I'm gonna kick you out. What you think of that?" Sister Mary Clarence 

- "I'm risking my life, for people I don't like, for reasons I don't quite understand." - Homer

Gotta say I'm feeling the two book idea. The rescue from the hospital could be ramped up a bit to make it a good ending for the first book. Add a bit more combat and shooting maybe?

Also, you gotta keep the Stephen 'The Breeder' Kilbride character, he was really well done :p

Ok, so I get that the regular looking guys (Rex, Savior, Brian) are/were all Marie's Children. What is confusing to me is what really is the difference between them. The real sticking point is that if Rex was considered The King...why wasn't Savior when he was younger or Brian? We know that Brian had the same type of dreams as Rex. Was it just the differences in how they first come into contact with The Family?  Hope that made sense what I am asking.

If this was addressed in the story somewhere and I missed it, someone point me to the episode number and I'll listen again. Ditto if it was addressed somewhere in this thread, since I didn't read every comment. 

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the Angry Dome.

I see several other Junkies have theories on the differences, but I feel the story would benefit from expanding on them.  Even if it's just in how they grow up & encounter The Family.

I keep thinking that it would be better to have some kind of difference beyond that though. 

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the Angry Dome.

I believe the anwer to your question lies in Stone's Punnett square he did of the genetics of Marie's Children.  He also pointed out that Brian's DNA Zed was stunted and maybe so is Saviors and that's what make them different. I agree that this maybe needs to be addressed in more detail.  Which will work out well when the FDO spilts it into two books.

Melisa Dyer

While getting rid of the dreams would reduce the word count, they are necessary for the problem that Firstborn is facing with all the young nocturnals haveing the same dreams.  Brian is one of the young nocturnals, even if he is slightly different, and therefor is going to be sharing in these dreams.  Its sets up drama and intrigue from the very beginning. 

Melisa Dyer

First, I want to say thank You for all your hard work this year…. Nocturnal is great! I love the idea that you ask for fan input. And there are many great ideas posted here….

 I agree with the need for more background and DO NOT kill Robin. I think Bryan (and the readers) should be constantly be wondering if she will survive. You could even have some of the characters watching over her while she lays in critical condition during Bryan’s battle…have her and Bryan take the baby from Aggie to raise. 

 I think the chief should have two girls but one is adopted… or the chief is a Zed and she passed the Zed onto one of the twins.

What happens when the Zeds have children?

There is definitely a need for some strong female characters….maybe the old savior or Jessup could be changed.

I still don’t understand how the boats got underground or what information was found out about Maria when Mr. Smith did research.

How tall was First Born? I thought he was 6”10 but in one episode you said he was over 7 feet tall. His description is too vague…. all I got was he was a big tall strong person that could jump.

What was the urine thing? Marking of territory? An act of humiliation?

Do their capes smell like urine so they could keep humans away? Is it a male pheromone thing?

Do u know there are tribes where the females urinate on the male teen boys as part of the right of passage ritual?

The groom walk….sorry it was silly. Not the idea but letting loose a bunch of kids with a fork and a knife…. all I could think of was “chuckie”. If the ritual is to teach them to hunt then maybe have a few of the older kids surround and overpower the prey and then the little kids could come out with the forks and knives….they could be cheering or chanting in the background….

You Rock! I am a junkie…. I have only recently been introduced to the world of podiobooks (although I have been listening to audio books for MANY years) and I have to let u know I listened to your story because your arch nemesis recommended it…. on his podcast.

A

what she said............
there were several subplots and story lines started and never finished in any form,like the ones mention above
some were informational (like were did marie come from? of course this could be answered in addition stories) and left us hanging, some were secondary storylines and others were just curiousities with no explanations
#
http://www.pgholyfield.com/maah/

dont want robin to die what better to fuel a savior to mercilessly slaughter the only people who are your true family then to have said family merc your girlfriend. 

who gives a F**k about the nuclear war, let bombs explode because thats what they're for

But here are my main issues

1- Who is Marie Latrelle?  how did she get like this?

2- why do zed's usually get aspects of animals?  what about the zed chromasome makes this happen?

3- Why did Marie's Children urinate on everything?  Was this a way of 'counting coup'?

4- Where did the Saviors come from?  They exhibit a supernatural sensing ability if nothing else, so it's not simply a question of people deciding to fight back and learning the weaknesses of Marie's Children

http://crimson-hairess.deviantart.com/

The empire will fear my sexy coils!