Scott
NOCTURNAL - THE END

SPOILER ALERT! DO NOT READ THIS FORUM IF YOU HAVE NOT FINISHED THE BOOK! TURN AWAY, NOW!!

Here you go Junkies, let's get the conversation started on what you thought of the book, and if there are things you thought should have gone differently. I'm posting this in Forums because your opinion may not be shared by other Junkies, which makes this a better place to discuss it than an email sent straight to me.

BarbaraJ
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

I cannot end without knowing the print version will have an illustrated break down of the 'Chang Bang' with appropriate safety guidelines.
Scott, this story fracking rocked and I can't think of a thing I'd change.  'cept maybe my undies after a couple of the scares you delivered.
Secretary General, Evil League of Evil

Secretary General, Evil League of Evil

Masta_Cylindar
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

one of my favorite stories ever  *drives to tattoo shop to get saivor tat*

 

Chew the womb, seal the tomb, leave the dead behind

-heavy metal is the law-
Paladine
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

I really enjoyed Nocturnal, as well, and I must admit that the coda of the book helped, but I *do* have some complaints.

 

1) What happened to Aggie James? There was this whole subplot, and then nothing.

 

2) The end is too fucking long. The scene where Brian dons the coat/cloak before rescuing Saviorwas awesomely genius and had my blood pumping. Granted, then followed a long story hiatus, but also a drawn-out finale that would. not. stop.

 

3) "Mission Accomplished" seems like a great euphemism for the status quo at the end of the book. Brian didn't accomlish anything by himself, he just got beat up a whole lot.

 

4) I'm not saying it didn't work, but get ready for feminist critique if you kill the girl to spur the hero into action. I really liked, however, the notion that Jebedajah Erickson might have experienced the same thing and even denying him his revenge at the end.

 

5) All the stuff with "Mommy", the Groom's Walk, the Aggie James subplot – perhaps that might work better in the sequel? Keep the Nocturnals more monstrous here, and show their society in the second book? That could help trim a lot of words. Don't nix it – because the Groom's Walk was great – just postpone it.

Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END
one thing man we could deliver the silverdusty stuff in a bullet ,trought a coating such as lee liquid alox used to lube cast bullets to prevent fouling .this is a beez wax lube that allmost drys but stays stickey .bulets could be loaded and then diped in to the dusty silver stuff thus making a dusty silver cast lead bullet that would leave the same wound trail as the arows or knif so treated . thanks for reading :)
scaryfan
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

First off, the idea of this novel if just fuckin awesome.  Great way of showing the science behind how something like a Nocturnal could even come to be.

Thing is, I think you did a good job of trying to expalin the subculture of the Nocturnals, showing the Grooms Walk, showing Mommie, showing how the King (Rex and previous King's) were escaped due to the crazy old lady, and showing how that worked first with Bryan and how that will work in the future with the kid that Aggie James snuck out.

Only problem is it feels like all of that information was discussed 20 epsisodes again and was never really addressed again.  In many of your stories, you continually go back and forth between the different plot threads to keep all these people together, ultimately culminating in a huge train wreck where all these threads meet.

I really wish you interspersed more about Mommy and the underground throughout the story.  I have to say that Mommy and those mutant kids is way scarier than the grown up Nocturnals.  I don't really have a good feel for who Marie is, how she really got there, what she's thinking (if she can think) and what her role is (anything more than a breeding ground). 

Is the kid that Aggie helped escaped not to be continued in the story?  Was that merely a way for Aggie to escape his self-torture and move on from a drug abusing bum to a decent person again? 

Just seems like all those side stories should be more interspersed.  I hear what you're saying about having to take out a bunch of words to get this to press.  I'd say you should even think about stopping somewhere around Robin's death and just go into more detail about Aggie, Marie and those plots. 

Start the 2nd book right after the death of Robin, and the 2nd book could probably even go a little bit passed the battle on the ship.


Just some ideas, would be cool to hear what you think of them.

Scott
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END
Moose, wouldn't a coating on the outside of the bullet be affected by the bullet's flight?
UncleAdam
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END
We need more Mommy!
Scott
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

Truth be told, I was planning on bringing Aggie and the kid back for a third book (which, if I split the first book in two, would be a fourth book). Give the kid a little time to grow up and become a factor in the plot.

I'm not worried about feminists. I still get emails about my "poor treatment of fat women." When I email them back to ask why they hate skinny men (six of them butchered to two fat ladies), I don't get any more emails. Once you point out to people that they don't care about the treatment of all people, just their people, they tend to shut the fuck up. Have a special intrest? Than put it away and enjoy yourself, or don't pick up the book.

The ending needs tightening, but there's a lot of plot threads and characters to deal with. It's going to be a lot of pages, but I will do a better job of conveying it's not a lot of time.

Moving the Mommy stuff to the sequel, not a bad idea. I wonder how much that would truncate?

scaryfan
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END
Good call about moving the underground stuff to the sequel.  Would add a ton of mystery into how they came to be in the first place.  Could still have Robin/her apprentice learning about their DNA and stuff, but not actually find out what the source is until later, then really delve into that in the next book.
mgcady
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

Scott, this rocked, but I have to agree with Paladine said about the Groom's Walk and all the stuff with Aggie.  It's great stuff, and provides a lot... but it gets lost by the end.

 

Now, one thing I wonder... if First Born was killing potential kings but some got smuggled out...

 

Isn't Brian actually a king?  If so, why doesn't he have the leading ability that Rex does? He should give off the scent/feeling that Rex does and perhaps cause some confusion or hesitation on the Nocturnals part (I'm thinking kind of like the Voice in Frank Herbert's Dune).

 

If he's not a king, why did First Born try to kill him and sparking the smuggling/adoption thing to happen years ago?

Mildred

AMP #1 (Additcted to Many Podcasts, in this case, a Junkie)
Amiko
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions on how to shorten the story. All of it sounds good to me.

Some additions would help it like it was with 'Infected'. Go a bit deeper, add some details. 

So I recon splitting the book in two would be the way to go here, though it might be a little harder to sell two books instead of one.

Good job.

Amiko
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END
As I understood Firstborn tried to get rid of children who had the _potential_ to become a King. Their smell was different but there was no guarantee they would be Kings when they reached certain age.
MuchAdo
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

At one point when brians DNA was tested, there was a portion of the Zed chromosome that was missing.  Of course that occured several months ago and it's hard to remember everything but my guess is that's why he senses the nocturnals but may be a little different from the majority of the nocturnals.

"Well. I'll tell you what. You gonna kick it with me. Or I'm gonna kick you out. What you think of that?" Sister Mary Clarence 

Proud member of Girlco and friend of GirlCo's official mascot

Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END
no way man, alox forms a varnish like coating youd lose as much as the arrow would in flight ,but the arrow isent stickey like the alox lube . and as far as delivery id load some fletchets in 12 gage shells just dusted up with the silver dust fletchets are 1inch long hardend steal darts. i belive they were thw anti personal part of anti personal mines .or just dust up buck shot it could eaven be coated like the bullets .lol :) realy the only way we could test these things is a hunt .but i would think weed slay some littel freaks !
Scott
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

Let's consider the surface area of a broadhead arrowhead against a bullet (I'll get to the shotgun shells in a second). Not going to calculate the area here, but the eight planes of a broadhead would provide a massive increase in surface area, delivering a larger amount of silver dust into the system (and it's an alloy, which I will get into with the sequel). The knife would have even more. And that's if I use just surface material, these could be some kind of porus metal with areas to contain pockets of material. Following that logic, the arrowhead becomes far deadlier.

Also, the arrowhead is custom, designed to stick in the wound. This lodging keeps the silver alloy right on the wound, further negating the rapid healing ability. By the same token, a bullet could also lodge, and serve a similar purpose but with a smaller area of effect.

I like the sound of the flechette!

I'll have to give this some thought to see how to make the story logical. However, I'm still thinking that the broadhead serves as the best ranged delivery vehicle, considering it's distance, accuracy, and surface area.

Scott
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END
If you're getting a Savior tat, or any of the symbols, I want to see it!
jpowell
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

Absolutely fantastic book Scott -- One thing that struck me as odd in episode 40 was when Sly killed the king only to frame first born (who is one helluva compelling character imo), it didn't entirely make sense (yea, yea power grab, got that).

Up until that point, it appeared that Sly was a true beliver in the prophecy of a King coming to deliver Marie's Children out of underground and was it not Sly and crew that initially found Rex and brought him to lead the family?

It just seems out of sorts to get the entire Nocturnal family enthralled (and believing in) that their king has FINALLY come and their time of living underground was soon to end only to have the king die so Sly could step into that role.  What can Sly possibly offer the family as their leader to fulfill the prophecy?  Just saying, he's no king and has limited leadership experience so it seems like a big step back and not likely to go well for Sly in that new role. 

 

twitter: jeffpowell

We Are 138!
MuchAdo
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

The unexpected ending definitely lends itself to a sequel and as you mentioned, there are several plots left unresolved.  I sent you my comments previously about the mitochondrial/sperm DNA, etc.  And lets not forget where Marie came from.  Remember Pookie trying to find her on google - but I'm sure that's part of the sequel.

So what can you leave out?????  I'm going to think about that some!

"Well. I'll tell you what. You gonna kick it with me. Or I'm gonna kick you out. What you think of that?" Sister Mary Clarence 

Proud member of Girlco and friend of GirlCo's official mascot

Wolf
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

Hollow point bullets filled with silverdust and capped with alox. Upon entry, the round would 'mushroom', dispersing the silverdust and reducing the chance of a through and through. I think a simular concept was used in "Underworld", but they went with a more complcated delivery method. Hollow points are simple, easy to work with and right up Jessups alley.

 

..No Bounce..

...No Play...

 

Scott
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END
It was his idea to have Rex make him second-in-command. Sly cultivated Rex, helped make the other Nocturnals believe in Rex and stand up against Firstborn. There's a fine line between showing you my hand and giving you the surprise ending. The goal is that you look back at the story after you finish, and you see Sly's manipulations. If I do it correctly, you don't see it coming, then at the end of the book, you say "damn, I should have seen that coming."
Wolf
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

The ending made sense once you recall just how Sly worked Rex to becoming his second ahead of FirstBorn. Delusions of grandeur, indeed. Now he thinks he's Top Dog.

 

..No Bounce..

...No Play...

 

DragonRiderOfPernEatenByAncestors
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END
The Irishman from Ohio
The Irishman from Ohio
DragonRiderOfPernEatenByAncestors
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END
The Irishman from Ohio
The Irishman from Ohio
MuchAdo
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

I said a portion of the chromosome was missing.  One small segment of it but the rest of the Zed was there.  It is hard to "see" damaged DNA but you can see that a portion of the chromosome is missing or broken off.

"Well. I'll tell you what. You gonna kick it with me. Or I'm gonna kick you out. What you think of that?" Sister Mary Clarence 

Proud member of Girlco and friend of GirlCo's official mascot

BarbaraJ
Re: NOCTURNAL - THE END

Although Stone Mason is a great name, you don't need him.  You can trim lots of stuff (althought he has some kick ass funny lines) by having Robin do her own mental heavy lifting.  He's just there to guide her to the answers she won't accept anyway.
I knew that Sly was playing everyone and that he was only interested in becoming the leader.  I didn't expect he'd backstab Rex - but then Sly didn't expect that First Born would be loyal and succeed.  Since Sly's whole deal is power, it makes sense.  You might have to add a scene wherein he thinks about how sweet life is going to be once he's the power behind the throne.
Obviously Aggie and the baby in the blanket are 2nd book material.  that was obvious as soon as we went to the O'Brien instead of the tunnels.  Never enough pages eh?
I think Amy Zou tossing the severed head MORE than makes up for some dead Robin Hudson action. Again I think you write wonderful female characters.  Joss Whedon would be proud of you. (That's a high compliment btw as I'm a member of the Church of Whedon.)
Secretary General, Evil League of Evil

Secretary General, Evil League of Evil

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