Junkie Brainstorm Session: GFL/Siglerverse numbering system
scottsigler
Allright, you lazy, good-for-nothing beatniks! Get out of that got, drop your linnen and stop your grinnin'!
This year is going to see as many as six new Dark Øverlord products enter the marketplace. ARealGirl and I are starting to plan for the far future, and we want your brains (for doing stuff brains are actually supposed to do, not to put in our belly).
Soon we will release the Mur Lafferty novella THE REPORTER, a story that takes place between THE STARTER and THE ALL-PRO. We have more novellas planned for 2013 and beyond, including TITLE FIGHT, which takes place between THE ROOKIE and THE STARTER. We want to develop a naming system that shows the exact timeline of Siglerverse cannon, and have that nomenclature be included in titles. We want people to be able to see, at a glance, the order of Siglerverse books.
Remember that all Siglerverse books happen in the same universe and timeline. Things that happen in CONTAGIOUS influence things that happen in THE CRYPT, and so on. I will eventually have series that are not part of the Siglerverse, like HUNTER HUNTERSON & SONS, but those stories are not part of this discussion.
Here's a tricky part: I have four "eras" of the Siglerverse planned out:
• "Olden Times" for stuff that happens before 2000
• "Modern Day" including INFECTED, CONTAGIOUS, ANCESTOR, NOCTURNAL and anything I write that takes place in our current world
• "Crypt Era" for all the stories that take place about 500 years from now
• "GFL Era" for the stories that take place 700 years from now
• "Modern Day" including INFECTED, CONTAGIOUS, ANCESTOR, NOCTURNAL and anything I write that takes place in our current world
• "Crypt Era" for all the stories that take place about 500 years from now
• "GFL Era" for the stories that take place 700 years from now
Because things in "Modern Day" affect things in "Crypt Era" and "GFL Era," some people will want to read all of the stories in order. At the same time, some people will eat up the military SF of "Crypt Era," and not give a crap about "Modern Era" or "GFL Era." So, this numbering system has to serve the fans that want to read everything from beginning to end, as well as cater to fans that just want to enjoy their little piece of the Siglerverse.
OPTION 1 - SEQUENTIAL DECIMAL SYSTEM:
One way is to identifying each series, then tack on a "Siglerverse" number at the end. THE ROOKIE, Book 1 of the GFL Series (Siglerverse 4.1) , THE STARTER, Book 2 of the GFL Series (Siglerverse 4.2), and so on. That means TITLE FIGHT would be described as: TITLE FIGHT, Book 1.5 of the GFL Series (Siglerverse 4.1.5). THE REPORTER would probably be Book 2.1 of the GFL Series (Siglerverse 4.2.1). THE CRYPT, Book 1.0 (Siglerverse 3.1) would be followed by THE CRYPT, Book 2.0 (Siglerverse 3.2), and if I go back and write things that happen in-between, it would be THE CRYPT Book 1.5 (Siglerverse 3.1.5)
Here's where it gets tricky: say we put out eleven stories that take place between THE ROOKIE and THE STARTER - eventually, we would have to put out something like: THE MANAGER, Book 1.5.2 of the GFL Series (Siglerverse 4.1.5.2)
PROS:
1. At a glance, you can see the exact order of the stories. When new Junkies enter the Siglerverse, if they so choose they can read the entire GFL series in order.
2. Infinitely expandable: we can keep adding stories for decades, and the system will continue even after I'm dead and some other entity takes over the Siglerverse franchise.
1. At a glance, you can see the exact order of the stories. When new Junkies enter the Siglerverse, if they so choose they can read the entire GFL series in order.
2. Infinitely expandable: we can keep adding stories for decades, and the system will continue even after I'm dead and some other entity takes over the Siglerverse franchise.
CONS:
1. What happens if I eventually add an era between "Modern" and "The Crypt?
2. Fifteen years from now, could get kludgy. Imagine ARealGirl and I find some great franchise characters in THE MVP that we want to develop with their own stories and/or series. Or, imagine Quentin's detective Frederico is a breakout star with y'all, and we want to give him a series of books. As the stories pile up, we could see cumbersone names like THE DETECTIVE, Book 3.5.1.4 of the GFL Series (Siglerverse 3.3.5.1.4)
1. What happens if I eventually add an era between "Modern" and "The Crypt?
2. Fifteen years from now, could get kludgy. Imagine ARealGirl and I find some great franchise characters in THE MVP that we want to develop with their own stories and/or series. Or, imagine Quentin's detective Frederico is a breakout star with y'all, and we want to give him a series of books. As the stories pile up, we could see cumbersone names like THE DETECTIVE, Book 3.5.1.4 of the GFL Series (Siglerverse 3.3.5.1.4)
OPTION 2 - DATE SYSTEM:
The other method we came up with was to just ad the date of the book's first day of action, and incorporate that into the title. For example, say THE ALL-PRO story begins on January 2, 2684, the title would be: "THE ALL-PRO, Book 3 of the GFL Series (Siglerverse 2684.1.2).
We would go with year first, I think, so if we have a system that sorts alphabetically by the "Siglerverse" number, it would flow correctly.
PROS:
1. Shows clear order of the stories.
2. Ten characters max (4 for year, 2 for month, 2 for day, plus two decimals)
3. Infinitely expandable. We would have a limit of 365 possible products for each "year," but we'd never hit that number, so we'd be able to drop new stories into the timeline whenever we like without multiple sequential decimals.
1. Shows clear order of the stories.
2. Ten characters max (4 for year, 2 for month, 2 for day, plus two decimals)
3. Infinitely expandable. We would have a limit of 365 possible products for each "year," but we'd never hit that number, so we'd be able to drop new stories into the timeline whenever we like without multiple sequential decimals.
CONS:
1. Don't we still need series numbers for the stories that happen between major books? For example, THE REPORTER, Book 3.1 of the GFL Series (Siglerverse 2684.5.10)
2. It might not be clear that things take place at the same time as other books, unless we put the full date range. For example THE REPORTER happens during THE ALL-PRO. Unless I put a full date range (beginning date, end date), it might not be clear that one story takes place during another. Not sure this matters as far as reading things in order, but it is a factor.
2. It might not be clear that things take place at the same time as other books, unless we put the full date range. For example THE REPORTER happens during THE ALL-PRO. Unless I put a full date range (beginning date, end date), it might not be clear that one story takes place during another. Not sure this matters as far as reading things in order, but it is a factor.
You are the fans, the Junkies, so give us your thoughts on these systems or another system.
KEEP IN MIND: ARealGirl and I are developing a massive universe that someday will include novels, novellas, short stories, comics, web series, movies and video games. Some stories will be comic-only, others might be video-game-only. We want to make sure fans that discover us 20 years from now can see the entire timeline at a glance, then best choose what they want to enjoy.
NOTE: If you want to play in this sandbox, please take time to think your system through before throwing in a comment. We don't want comments like "why don't you just number them in order?" that show you didn't read the post, and show you put down the first thing to pop into your head. This is a complex issue that we're trying to manage to better serve the Junkies.
60 Comments
If I get this right you're basically trying to create a classification system, but you need to add to it on a continuing basis. I don't think that you really want to go down the route of a numbering system at all. It's going to get super unweildy and end up like a library, with the dewey decimal system, only librarians really understand it.
Personally I'd use something like a taxonomy diagram:
[IMG]http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t374/1Rok/Verse.jpg[/IMG]
You get several benefits:
it's really expandable
You can call the books whatever you like, it won't matter
it's really easy to see where you should start without a complicated numbering system.
In hardcopies you only need to add the relevant section, fans will be able to understand exactly where the book fits by looking at an extract of it.
For the softcopy (which you've mentioned you want to move to), they can see the whole system at once and you can auto-update when a new item enters the canon.
The downside is that it can get unweildy but since you only need an extract to understand where that book fits that isn't really a problem.
I genuinely think that for ease of use by fans (especially new ones) any form of numbering system is a bad idea. A diagram is the simplest option.
It also means you can cross link stories. Take Title Fight, it happens between The Starter and The Rookie but is referenced in The Starter. If you're universe expands as much as you plan that sort of instant reference note is going to come in really handy.
You'll also have the ability to customise it with labels for different themes of content (e.g. football, military, politics) or nature of product (ebook only, videogame, hardcover only, audio only...)
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Death, chaos and mayhem, the music of the night
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Death, chaos and mayhem, the music of the night
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Death, chaos and mayhem, the music of the night
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Death, chaos and mayhem, the music of the night
Ah yes, sorry Waista. Should have made myself clearer on that. I was ignoring the idea of creating a nomenclature to be included in the titles because it struck me as an incredibly bad and confusing idea. I have yet to come across a classification scheme based on numbers or letters that is easy to instantly understand and expand. I respect the FDO's ability in publishing novels, marketing and self promotion, but I think this is a bad idea.
Wasn't advocating putting this on the cover either, in the first few pages alongside, 'Also By the Same Author' type of thing. I've never seen anyone buy a book without leafing through it first.
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Death, chaos and mayhem, the music of the night
Being simple minded this what I hear. need books to be order chronologically but also have the capacity to group by series, subseries and have space to insert new ones. so I translate this into:
date.serie.subserie.booknumber
subserie would be 0 for the major serie
examples:
Rookie 26831126.4.0.1
Starter 26840605.4.0.2
title Fight 26840305.4.1.1
Because the date is first, you will always have perfect chronological order. bonus: your serie number does not need to be in order. you can assign it any number it would still appear in the prorper order (infinite expansion)
Since the serie number is there, you always know which books are related and their orders. the subserie let's you know that it is not part of the main serie thread but is related to it.
I would suggest make the serie and subserie a 2 digit number, so you have 99 possible series and 99 possible subseries for each. the 2 digit is to take care of the sorting order since it would have to use the string sort algorithm. it would then look like:
Rookie 26831126.40.00.1
Starter 26840605.40.00.2
title Fight 26840317.40.01.1
hope this make sense
by the way, you should advertise way more that Nocturnal is also available for pre-order at barnes and noble. I thought it was amazon only, until I stumbled and pre-order it at B&N
CBBC Tigress & Proud member of the Gutter Sistren
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender's_Game_(series)
Either way, if I get confused by a flat list, I want to take a look at some sort of chart to give me context.
http://www.sikander.org/foundation.php
Dark Øverlørd Media: We Default tø the Nuclear Sølutiøn
The only problem with that is old books don't have the new timeline. But, a link to an evergreen timeline site could work, so long as the site is maintained and updated regularly.
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Proud Member of the Wolf Pack and
The only problem with that is old books don't have the new timeline. But, a link to an evergreen timeline site could work, so long as the site is maintained and updated regularly.
No power in the Verse can stop me.
No power in the Verse can stop me.
I'm in with the simple minded crowd: do not put a number code on the cover - for the large majority of potential readers, it will be confusing rather than enlightening.
Anything requiring a cipher to understand does not add to buyers appeal.
I have no really new ideas, but would recommend a combo of several of the previous mentioned:
In toto: keep it simple
Finally: I'm taken w. Mr. Fahrenheit's timeline - it's a super cool illustration that'll work wonders as a 'Also by Scott Sigler' page #2.
Sure a fancy numbering system would be nice, but for newer mebers you can add in a page towards the front of the book with a website link written on it that says "for a full siglervese timeline visit www.scottsigler.com/______". That way you can keep it updated.
or on the binding if you want to get rid of the nuber system you can put one of those square barcodes that you can scan with your smartphone that takes you to a taxonomy diagram like Mr_Fahrenheit's
putting more stuff on the Cover of a Book is a safe way to get potential buyers confused. I am a bookseller for 8 years now, and have seen it happen many times, too many times...
I side with Mr. Fahrenheit. Come up with 4 Icons, each for every Era and put that Icon/Logo on the Spine of the Books.
Then add a Timeline in the Front or the Back of a Book. The Expanded Universe Timeline of StarWars is very, very good and quite easy to decipher.
And u can include the newest timeline with every reprint of the current edition.
That way you can avoid the problem, with a non up to date timeline in older books.
Hope that helps.
Cheers from good old Germany.
(Sorry for my english, its quite early over here ;-))